Posts by Doug Mason

18

The Divine Son of God, God Incarnate, Lord, Redeemer, and Saviour of the World

by Doug Mason in

before jesus was born or even if he had never existed—another human being was already proclaimed son of god and, indeed, god incarnate within the same first common-era century and within the same mediterranean world.

in fact, almost all the sacred terms and solemn titles that we might think of as christian creations or even pauline inventions were already associated with caesar augustus, the first undisputed ruler of the roman empire, from 31 bce to 14 ce.. augustus was divine, son of god, god, and god from god.

he was lord, liberator, redeemer, and savior of the world—not just of italy or the mediterranean, mind you, but of the entire inhabited earth.

Doug Mason

Before Jesus was born or even if he had never existed—another human being was already proclaimed Son of God and, indeed, God Incarnate within the same first common-era century and within the same Mediterranean world. In fact, almost all the sacred terms and solemn titles that we might think of as Christian creations or even Pauline inventions were already associated with Caesar Augustus, the first undisputed ruler of the Roman Empire, from 31 BCE to 14 CE.

Augustus was Divine, Son of God, God, and God from God. He was Lord, Liberator, Redeemer, and Savior of the World—not just of Italy or the Mediterranean, mind you, but of the entire inhabited earth. Words like "justice" and "peace," "epiphany" and "gospel," "grace" and "salvation" were already associated with him. Even "sin" and "atonement" were connected to him as well. …

All those assertions, terms, and titles were at home within Roman imperial theology and incarnated in Caesar the Augustus before they ever appeared in Pauline Christian theology and were incarnated in Jesus the Christ. (The First Paul: Reclaiming the Radical Visionary Behind the Church’s Conservative Icon, pages 93, 94, by Marcus Borg and John Dominic Crossan, HarperOne 2009)

35

Born Twice - Die Once .... Born Once - Die Twice

by Perry in

jesus taught that we must die unto ourselves, and allow the holy spirit to take up residence within us.

some people get saved by simply inviting jesus into their hearts, to be the lord of their life.

this serves as a countering force within the born-again christian to counterbalance the will of the flesh, which is still unsaved in this life and destined for destruction in imitation of our lord himself.. attempting to live the christian life without having this spirit within you is a waste of time at the minimum, and dangerous on the downside.

Doug Mason

Perry,

Rather than work through the many issues one by one, I invite you to wait for a short until I commence a thread, naming it: "The Jesus-movements' First 200 Years".

Doug

35

Born Twice - Die Once .... Born Once - Die Twice

by Perry in

jesus taught that we must die unto ourselves, and allow the holy spirit to take up residence within us.

some people get saved by simply inviting jesus into their hearts, to be the lord of their life.

this serves as a countering force within the born-again christian to counterbalance the will of the flesh, which is still unsaved in this life and destined for destruction in imitation of our lord himself.. attempting to live the christian life without having this spirit within you is a waste of time at the minimum, and dangerous on the downside.

Doug Mason

Perry,

While you complain about the way that the Watchtower modifies the text of the Bible to suit its own beliefs, this is exactly what the NT writers also did when they referenced their own religious writings. There was no canon of Hebrew Scriptures at the time (hence the many times they cited texts such as 1 Enoch).

When you look at "heresies" (opinions) through the eyes of the Church Fathers, you are reading only their opinions. One person's "orthodoxy" is another person's "heresy".

It is simply an accident of history that the Paulines became the state religion and were thus able to determine that their writings would form Scripture. The bulk of the NT is made up of wriitngs by Paul, by people who pretended to be Paul, and by people who supported Paul. Little survives from the supporters of the Jerusalem Church (such as Matthew and James). Although Peter was a leader at Jerusalem, little is known of him, while 1 Peter and 2 Peter were written by Paulines decades after Peter's death. Likewise, the Gospels were written many decades after the events they describe, and some owe their thoughts to Paul.

Doug

20

WT Article - David Versus Goliath—Did It Really Happen?

by ttdtt in

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-no5-2016-september/david-versus-goliath-real/.

the article ends with this:.

there is no real basis for doubting the truthfulness of this historical account.

Doug Mason

The writers were not recording literal histroy. They were wrapping religious teachings within a story (parables). This is a simple and effective method for teaching people because they were illiterate. Because they relied on oral communication, a story provided the excellent vehicle for memorising the lessons being taught. A prime example of this is the myth of the Exodus. It provided the vehicle for enshrining religious ideas that were contemporary with the time the events were being written (some 600 years after the "Moses event").

Doug

35

Born Twice - Die Once .... Born Once - Die Twice

by Perry in

jesus taught that we must die unto ourselves, and allow the holy spirit to take up residence within us.

some people get saved by simply inviting jesus into their hearts, to be the lord of their life.

this serves as a countering force within the born-again christian to counterbalance the will of the flesh, which is still unsaved in this life and destined for destruction in imitation of our lord himself.. attempting to live the christian life without having this spirit within you is a waste of time at the minimum, and dangerous on the downside.

Doug Mason

Village Idiot,

I see Apostle Paul as that "charismatic leader".

His determination, his arrogance, and his drive created a world-wide movement. Jesus never stepped outside Galilee, except to visit Jerusalem. Jesus was of the country; Paul was a city man.

Doug

35

Born Twice - Die Once .... Born Once - Die Twice

by Perry in

jesus taught that we must die unto ourselves, and allow the holy spirit to take up residence within us.

some people get saved by simply inviting jesus into their hearts, to be the lord of their life.

this serves as a countering force within the born-again christian to counterbalance the will of the flesh, which is still unsaved in this life and destined for destruction in imitation of our lord himself.. attempting to live the christian life without having this spirit within you is a waste of time at the minimum, and dangerous on the downside.

Doug Mason

Hi Cofty,

You ask whether there was a person named "Jesus" (actually "Joshua"/Yeshua).

Perhaps we should ask whether the significance of Jesus is the outcome of the creative imaginings of one person - Apostle Paul. His followers decided which writings were scripture and it is no surprise that his writings dominate, including those gospels which show their allegiance to Paul. Many say that Paul invented Christianity, but I feel that this might be a stretch too far, inasmuch as Paul was persecuting Jews in Damascus who were aligned to the Jewish sect of "Jesus" (Yeshua).

Nevertheless, inasmuch as Paul's writings are the earliest, his inventive ideas on matters such as baptism and the eucharist are fundamental to subsequent Christianity,

The person who provides the significant interpretation of Paul is a Benedictine Monk of the 11th century named Anselm. Now, I could be quite wrong here (not the first or last time), but my understanding is that for Augustine, salvation related to the group. In other words, God was saving Israel as a nation. My understanding is that Anselm turned that idea on its head and said that salvation relates to the individual. Hence his ideas align with subsequent Protestantism. I say this with the caution that my current understanding needs some intense research and thinking.

Doug

35

Born Twice - Die Once .... Born Once - Die Twice

by Perry in

jesus taught that we must die unto ourselves, and allow the holy spirit to take up residence within us.

some people get saved by simply inviting jesus into their hearts, to be the lord of their life.

this serves as a countering force within the born-again christian to counterbalance the will of the flesh, which is still unsaved in this life and destined for destruction in imitation of our lord himself.. attempting to live the christian life without having this spirit within you is a waste of time at the minimum, and dangerous on the downside.

Doug Mason

Rather than reveal what Jesus actually said (he could not write), each Gospel reveals the theology of its writer(s).

Probably the closest to the actual teachings of Jesus comes from the document attributed to James, his brother. Although the NT is a compilation of documents by followers of Paul, they included James because of his direct relationship with Jesus and because James was the Jerusalem leader, having taken over from Peter at a very early stage. James was followed by another of Jesus' relatives, Symeon. Paul, of course was completely at loggerheads with the Jerusalem leadership.

This mystical idea of divine illumination (Christ in you, etc), was picked up by the Gnostics. The Paulines did not include any of the Gnostic writings, thereby providing an unbalanced picture of the primitive church. Acts (of the Apostles) is a religious invention created for political purposes. Several other Acts were written, some have survived.

Doug

2

Define Bible in the Right Way

by Loi_241 in

the christian define properly jesus plus books equal bible.

the bible does not mean law.

the koine greek word biblia means “books”.

Doug Mason

The decision on which writings should be in the NT was made by some men who said they agreed with those writings. They were followers of Paul, so he dominates the NT. However, of the 13 or 14 attributed to Paul, he actually was only responsible for 7 of those writings. Several of the writings fraudulently state that Paul was responsible (1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Colossians, Ephesians).

The Protestant soteriology that is assigned to Paul's writings (substitutionary death paid to God, etc.) were generated 1100 years ago by Anselm.

Doug

77

New commentary on revelation coming up?

by EdenOne in

i heard through the grapevine about a forthcoming book:.

together through the great tribulation - come to jehovah's mountain.

still awaiting solid confirmation though.

Doug Mason

The Book of Revelation that squeezed into the New Testament was only one of a number of Apocalypses written at that time. We are aware of perhaps as many as 10 other Apocalypses, and who knows how many others were destroyed by the successful Pauline Christians.

The Watchtower therefore accepts the decision that was made by the 4th century Christian Church, the same Church that accepted the Trinitarian formula, to accept the Revelation of John as Scripture.

The Apoclypse that made it into the NT is the product of the Jewish section of the Christian movement. It anticipated that the Coming was imminent, during their own lifetime. ("I am coming soon").

It has influenced history ever since, with people in every age using it to show that it refers to their own times. Its failure, whether for the people to whom it was originally addressed or to the people in every subsequent time, has not deterred people from repeating the mistake of saying "Coming Soon".

The lesson that history teaches is that people do not learn the lesson that history teaches.

Doug

13

What is Critical Thinking? (Not the distorted view the society teaches)

by stuckinarut2 in

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6olpl5p0fmg.

this great video explains what critical thinking really is, and why it is a skill all humans need to employ in daily life.. the expression had been distorted by the society to something that is negative or wrong, yet that is far from the case.....

Doug Mason

Thank you for pointing to that YouTube video. I am currently putting another Study together and I have been concerned at the response many will have to it, should I complete it and release it.

However, I gained comfort with the thought that there are people prepared to indulge in critical thinking, who are prepared to challenge themselves, so I shall continue working on it.

-------

I find it disappointing to read the Watchtower denigrating "Higher Criticism". But even more so, I find it interesting that people do not understand what the expression means and how it relates to the other forms of Criticism.

The Watchtower does not want people to think. They demand absolute and total loyalty - a totalitarian rue - regardless of what it says, because that is subject to change.

Doug